Humperdinck Jackman (00:01.176)
Hello, I’m Humperdink Jackman, CEO ESG Pro, joined today by James Dyer, who heads up ESG Pro’s delivery to facility services companies and cleaning companies and property asset managers and the rest. James has a huge, huge uptake in demand from companies across all of these very closely related sectors. Coming to ESG Pro for
certifications and all sorts of different ways, what’s driving them?
James Dyer (00:35.802)
Typically, mean, the FM and cleaning industry is an industry where, which is…
dictated by preferred suppliers lists, right? So if you want to, if you’re a smaller contractor wanting to work for a larger organization, typically they have a preferred suppliers list, which in order to get on, you need to have certain certifications. 20, 30 years ago, the huge craze was the ISO standards, the integrated management system, which most companies now in this sector is their first port of call when they want to start getting accreditation and certifications. More recently, a lot of the larger
players in the industry have mandated that either EcoVardist or B Corp or such like specific ESG certifications or ratings are held by a company purely because it gives them a very quick and easy understanding of what that company is doing in terms of their own ESG strategy, understanding what their own impacts are, how they’re mitigating them, and also what the impacts are across their supply chain, which going through these ESG
ESG certifications actually by default enables you to do.
Humperdinck Jackman (01:45.652)
And case in point, few, a of months ago, one of our clients came to us and said, look, I operate a business of some 250 people cleaning the public areas of hotels for groups such as, and there were many prestigious hotel groups, but one of them in particular was Acor Hotels, who at an international level imposed eco-violence on every single supplier.
And they basically wrote to this facilities management corporation and said, you’ve got 30 days to comply. It’s a very tall order to get somebody an ESG rating in that space. So we started off with a draft legal legal team.
So we started off with our in-house legal team drafting them a letter of intent and we cracked on with a certification. But what we had to do first was get all of their carbon reporting done as well. Tall order, but this is the pressure which businesses are under.
James Dyer (02:54.714)
Yeah, absolutely. And if you’re a smaller company working for a large organization, that a single contract, if you’re a cleaning company, for example, could make up a large chunk of your revenue. If they say jump, you’re going to say how high, right? You need to retain those contracts. These are very important customers. And if they come along and say, we now want to only work with eco-biotas approved trading or supply partners, then they’re going to need to do everything they need to do to get those certifications in place as quickly as possible.
And that’s where you really need to turn to the likes of ESG Pro for some additional support because business owners, managers, they need to focus on the day-to-day running of their business. They don’t necessarily have the time and resource to allocate to going through those certifications by themselves. So it’s very important to have somebody who understands the assessment process, basically to hold your hand through the assessment and to get it done as quickly and as efficiently as possible.
Humperdinck Jackman (03:50.808)
Yeah, now there’s B Corp, which takes, well, the reporting side can take three to six months, but then waiting for that B Corp process to conclude with its audit invariably takes a business nine months to a year. It does vary a lot according to how complex the business is, what industry they’re in, where they’re located, which country and so on.
EcoVitis is a lot faster. However, it’s broadly similar. It’s probably a more arduous standard. What’s your take, James, on whether what’s the right progression, I should say, what is the right progression for a business to approach these certifications? Carbon followed or concurrently with what?
James Dyer (04:48.826)
Well, carbon has been mandated by most of them now. So you need to start with carbon counting as a starting point, whether you’re going for B Corp or EcoBardis. That’s a given that you need to understand what your scope 1, 2, 3 emissions are and have some kind of plan in place to reduce them over time. So that’s very much a fundamental starting point. If you then want to look at what’s going on in terms of your impacts across your supply chain, then it’s about looking at
a small supply chain audit with your key suppliers. The more you can demonstrate to your stakeholders that you’re not only looking at your own direct impacts and what you have direct control over, but those within your supply chain and how you can have a much broader impact, whether that be by educating or working with your suppliers.
filing resources or anything that may enable them to manage their own ESG strategies. That’s where you really start to see value.
Humperdinck Jackman (05:49.07)
Okay, and one of the major, major progressions for people to consider is, okay, you’ve got your carbon reporting done, you’ve implemented some, your social value initiatives, especially with, in respect of knowing your suppliers, maybe contributing something to them, some assistance in bringing them on board with you, you’re all part of the same journey. We see a lot of clients.
starting with B Corp, partway through starting their B Corp journey, they start their EcoVardis journey because the one leads into the other so nicely. And then very particularly for clients who want to achieve the most superior rating, then they’re embarking on GRI framework reporting. So what this does,
is it opens the door for every business to get an EcoVardis Gold or even Platinum certification. You have to have the GRI. So think of it this way. B Corp is about people. It’s very, very CSR focused. EcoVardis is very much more supply chain focused. It’s a CSR certification. And the icing on the cake is the full
corporate GRI framework, which really makes you dive deep into the organization and fix the risks. But it’s achievable. So ESG Pro, we have the B Corp certification and EcoVitis Gold placing us in the top 5 % of all businesses globally. In actual fact, we’re in the top 3%. And hopefully in November, we’ll be in the top 1%. But if a business
Like ESG Pro can achieve these certifications, so can every one of our clients. You don’t need to be a huge corporation to achieve the very best. And one of the reasons for that is that the standards, all of these standards vary according to size of business, industry, geographic location. So it’s achievable. In terms of timeframe and effort, James, how,
Humperdinck Jackman (08:16.587)
How much effort do you think is really required from our clients going through these certifications?
James Dyer (08:23.978)
Well, typically we work with clients on a weekly basis, so schedule a one hour call where we work initially working through the assessment process. Like you said before, EcoBionis is a much quicker way to get a certification. The process is much quicker, it’s much more algorithm based rather than waiting for a person to audit your assessment.
but that we work through both of them in the same way. So an hour online, working with our team, going through the assessment and finding out where the gaps are and what’s currently being done with the business.
And then an hour offline, pulling together, whether it be policies, documentation, whatever it is that’s required in order to enhance the assessment, we do that with an hour offline each week. So we try to make it not too taxing in terms of time and resources. We understand that business owners have a business to run. yeah, we do it as kind of make the whole process as easy and efficient as possible.
Humperdinck Jackman (09:28.333)
When you’re working with clients in the facilities, services and cleaning companies and related, what are the particular issues which you encounter on a routine basis, which singles out this industry needing some very particular help? Is it the fact that many of them are actually run from quite small offices, a small core team of people I’ve seen
four or five people being responsible for 200 subcontractor employees. Is this the big issue?
James Dyer (10:08.666)
One of them, yeah, I mean, as you know, my background is in the cleaning industry. So it’s an industry I know very well. I spent many years working in the sports and entertainment sector in that business. But the cleaning industry is all about high volume and low margin. So cleaning companies don’t necessarily have a lot of funds and resources available to have large administrative teams and all the things that come with running a large business.
The most common thing I hear from clients and prospects is that we’re doing all of this great stuff, but we don’t really know…
how to shout about it, what we should do about it, how to demonstrate to our clients about what we’re doing. And cleaning and FM companies, are people-centric businesses, right? They’re all about people and service delivery. So those companies in particular have to do lots in order to retain talent. They need to treat people well. They need to put benefits in place and have policies and procedures which really work well for their people. And a lot of companies are doing that. They just don’t really
know how to package that up into, whether it be a certification or a report, which demonstrates to all the stakeholders involved in their business of all the good things, the positive things they’re doing in terms of the environment, their social value, and the governance, which is the way their businesses run day to day. So yeah, really that’s the main thing I find is that we need to know how better to tell the world about all of the stuff that we’re doing.
Humperdinck Jackman (11:41.036)
And then of course, everybody is now being forced into the whole sort of PQQ and they’re having to submit bids to compete, especially with the new procurement act, procurement act 2023. A lot of hurdles and so many different standards and so many different PQQ questions coming out dreamed up.
by a thousand different people. smaller businesses are being drowned by this process. So if 20 to 30 % of the waiting on vendor selection is down to sustainability questions, the logic goes that if you have, I mean, if you have the ultimate certification, which is eco-virtus,
Then almost by default, you’ve knocked it out of the park, you’re good to go, you’re going to be selected. Now concentrate on the client’s specific delivery requirements. Get that submission in and be ready to win, but don’t lose any points on your application just because you couldn’t tick a box.
James Dyer (13:07.95)
Yeah, exactly. So that’s what the certification serves to do is give clients and potential clients just a snapshot of what you’re doing. If you go to a larger company and say we’re EcoBard is gold or platinum, then immediately they know that you’ve put a lot of work into your ESG strategy and the day-to-day running of your business is kind of centered around the ESG. So yeah, and like the B Corp thing is the same more and more, it’s becoming more and more prevalent.
seeing it on packaging in our stores and supermarkets. And that covers across all sectors. So people very, they understand now what these certification marks mean. And that awareness out there in the public is only becoming more and more each year. getting on board with a certification as early as possible just provides you with a bank of resources, a bank of evidence, which you can back up whether you’re going through a tender process or a proposal. You have the evidence.
two-hand which can show people what it is that you’ve been doing in terms of ASG.
Humperdinck Jackman (14:12.821)
And it’s great for your brand, isn’t it? From a marketing messaging point of view. And by the way, on that point, you mentioned about people recognize these standards. Various studies have been done over the last 10, 15 years, showing that consumers will pay a four to a 9 % premium for products and services they deem to be sustainable. And on the other hand, businesses are saying,
If we don’t see those standards, you’re not getting our business. You’re not going to be at the table. But from my mind, so many businesses, and I think particularly here of the facility services and cleaning companies and related, generally quite unsophisticated websites and not a lot to really shout about. Yeah, they’ve got some waste management standards.
ISO 14001, but as an example, but anybody can get that, it’s a bit of paperwork. They’re not really able to, without these certifications, what could they really shout about to differentiate themselves from the competition? I think it’s absolutely critical from a social media and brand perspective that they’re talking to
James Dyer (15:21.402)
you
Humperdinck Jackman (15:41.771)
the audience, the buyers who are of a generation where this is their priority.
James Dyer (15:48.312)
Yeah, and I always say to…
Don’t go through the B Corp assessment and get certified if you’re not willing to walk the walk thereafter. It’s one thing to talk the talk, but actually walking the walk is, over… You have to recertify after a year with ecobitis or three years if you’re B Corp certified. So when it comes to that, you’re going to have to demonstrate that you’ve demonstrated continuous improvement. Like you’ve improved, you know, your carbon footprint has gone down, your carbon intensity has gone down.
If your revenues have up, need to be less intense in terms of the carbon that you use. You may need to show that you’ve had more social value and therefore you’ve been more involved in community projects or you provided better benefits to your people. Whatever it is that you may have done as you’ve grown as a business, it needs to be demonstrated and going through a certification and then maintaining them just gives you a very structured framework within which to do that.
Humperdinck Jackman (16:48.639)
And the social values side is mandatory now with the Procurement Act. So if you wish to bid for public money, you’re in a bidding to the public sector, you have to have the social value. You have to be able to demonstrate it. Any other thoughts here, James, for this sector?
James Dyer (17:15.608)
No, I think you’re quite right. These are no longer nice to haves. They’re necessities. If you don’t develop and grow an ESG strategy around your business, then you will be left behind. You’ll find eventually there are doors that will not open for you anymore. And that’s inevitable as you grow as a company. So.
I would advise any company, whether large or small, no matter where they are in their journey of business growth, to really look at ESG and their strategy of what they currently have in terms of accreditation and how are they going to evidence the work that they’ve done when those questions get asked in the future.
Humperdinck Jackman (17:56.109)
Well, it’s been a real pleasure to get your insight today, James, from somebody who is a professional from the industry and now totally focused on ESG. I think it’s been very insightful. For everybody listening, James may be reached via email jd at esgpro.co.uk or fill in the contact form found at the bottom.
virtually every one of our web pages. We’d love to hear from you, meet with you over Teams, face to face as needed, and see how we can help you. Thank you again, everybody. Cheerio.
James Dyer (18:36.57)
Great, thank you.