WHY CLIMATE MATTERS
IN BUSINESS PODCAST. 

Climate change is the long-term alteration of global temperatures and weather patterns, mainly driven by human activities such as burning fossil fuels, deforestation, and industrial processes. It leads to rising sea levels, extreme weather events, and threats to biodiversity, health, and the global economy. Tackling climate change requires reducing greenhouse gas emissions, shifting to renewable energy, and building resilience to its impacts.

EcoVadis and B Corp certifications help businesses combat climate change by driving measurable improvements in sustainability performance. EcoVadis assesses environmental, social, and governance practices, encouraging companies to reduce carbon emissions, adopt renewable energy, and improve supply chain transparency. B Corp certification measures a company’s overall impact on people and the planet, requiring businesses to embed sustainability into governance, operations, and decision-making. Both certifications provide frameworks, benchmarks, and accountability that help organisations cut greenhouse gases, strengthen resilience, and demonstrate genuine commitment to climate action.

Climate change affects businesses through rising operational costs, supply chain disruptions, regulatory pressures, and reputational risks. Companies face increasing stakeholder expectations to cut emissions, improve resource efficiency, and adopt sustainable practices. Proactive climate strategies not only reduce risk but also unlock opportunities in innovation, cost savings, and long-term resilience.

Businesses can combat climate change by switching to renewable energy, reducing waste, improving energy efficiency, and embedding sustainability into policies and decision-making. Setting science-based targets and engaging employees and suppliers in climate action are key steps. ESG Pro helps organisations turn these actions into measurable results through audits, reporting, and strategic guidance.

Reducing carbon emissions is essential for aligning with climate targets and demonstrating corporate responsibility. Beyond compliance, businesses that prioritise carbon reduction contribute to global climate action while building trust with investors, clients, and communities. Carbon reduction strategies also drive innovation and enhance competitiveness in low-carbon markets.

Supply chains are a major source of greenhouse gas emissions. By engaging suppliers on sustainability, adopting renewable energy, and improving efficiency, businesses can significantly cut their carbon footprint. ESG Pro supports companies in mapping, assessing, and working with suppliers to address climate risks and strengthen sustainable sourcing strategies.

ESG reporting helps businesses measure, monitor, and disclose their environmental impact, including carbon emissions and energy use. Transparent reporting provides stakeholders with evidence of progress and ensures compliance with climate-related regulations. By integrating ESG metrics, companies can identify climate risks, set reduction targets, and demonstrate commitment to sustainability.

See also:

climate change, global warming, greenhouse gases, carbon emissions, rising temperatures, extreme weather, sustainability, renewable energy, deforestation, climate crisis, environmental impact, net zero, carbon footprint, energy efficiency, biodiversity loss, green economy, adaptation and mitigation, sustainable future, climate action

Humperdinck Jackman (00:01.314)
Hi, I’m Humperdinck Jackman, CEO ESG Pro. And the big question today is why does the climate matter? Why should anybody in business even care about the climate? After all, Donald Trump says the climate crisis and net zero is a con. Ed Miliband wants to sell us to the Chinese. Well, I’m joined today by Megan Fraser of ClimateLed. Megan, tell everybody what your business, ClimateLed.

is about.

Megan Fraser (00:32.481)
So I run a business called FutureLed. It’s an executive coaching consultancy for climate pioneers. So essentially leaders, executives, founders in the climate space broadly. So sustainability, climate, nature. And I equip leaders at career defining transitions, new promotions, a different stage of their organization, a career crossroads to lead with impact so that they can have the biggest ripple effect that they can.

for the climate, for the organization, and for themselves.

Humperdinck Jackman (01:05.73)
Yeah, so I mean, this is the point, isn’t it? That facing up to what a business can do in response to society’s overall perception of the climate does translate into both a personal advantage in business, no matter your age, your sex, gender, whatever, it can be a personal advantage, but it also transforms the perception

of potential customers and potential customers as to what your business represents and why should they want, why should they even be remotely interested in doing business with you? We see this all the time, clients coming to us saying, hey, we failed this tender because, we’re gonna miss out on 30 percentage points of our bid simply because we can’t talk about what we do, what we stand for in terms of climate and sustainability. So in a sense,

Is that summing up what you’re about?

Megan Fraser (02:08.501)
Yes, I work mostly with clients who are already in the climate space. So I’ll give you some examples. I’m coaching the VP of operations at a spin out from a Scottish university. create sensors for renewables. So they are explicitly in the renewables manufacturing space. I’m coaching a very senior person at a public transportation company. He’s responsible for making a fleet of hundreds of buses into electric buses.

and leading their net zero strategy. I’m coaching the founder of an embryonic early stage NGO that’s trying to go global. So all these people have different ways in to the climate crisis and see the role that business can play. I think frankly, because governments are acting too slowly and there’s too much foot dragging and because they’re constantly enthralled at the next election. I think people for a long time waited for governments to show leadership.

I think what’s happening instead is that the private sector needs to show leadership and then governments will come along.

Humperdinck Jackman (03:11.352)
We see this all the time. The UK is kind of strange on everything to do with ESG and sustainability.

lots of motivation, but very little action from the government, as opposed to the European model, which you know, they’ve been trying to introduce CSRD, climate, corporate,

Humperdinck Jackman (03:39.608)
Very different from the European model, where it’s regulatory led. And in the UK, this entire topic is being led by large corporations saying, no, we’re not going to be left behind, posing these topics onto their supply chain and saying, get with it or you can’t be a supplier anymore.

Megan Fraser (03:44.224)
Yeah.

Megan Fraser (04:06.081)
It’s very encouraging that we’re seeing that, especially since Brexit, when there’s regulatory, fewer regulatory sticks, if you like, for companies here. And yet we’re still seeing citizens, consumers wanting companies to be more forthright in their climate commitments. And it makes a big difference in who people are buying from and the choices that they’re making. So I think it’s a huge opportunity.

Humperdinck Jackman (04:29.197)
Well, I’m to interrupt. With consumers, the brand which is really sort of taking their attention is B Corp. Corp’s been going for many years, but it’s the growth in the UK is just startling right now. And part of the reason why so many small SMEs are seizing on B Corp as an example is

Megan Fraser (04:41.449)
Mmm.

Humperdinck Jackman (04:58.561)
With all of the mumbo jumbo out there, with all of the, look, here’s a jolly photo of a farmer on the package of eggs. There’s no resemblance to what’s actually happening on the farm. B Corp is an auditing process which establishes credibility for a small business. From one person up to hundreds of thousands of people, but primarily it’s about the

the micro business and the very small SME. And consumers will pay on average, study after study shows this from the likes of PWC, Deloitte, McKinsey, they pay a four to 9 % premium for products and services deemed to come from a sustainable company.

Megan Fraser (05:46.079)
That’s fascinating. I don’t know that statistic.

Humperdinck Jackman (05:49.326)
We see another one as well at the other end of the scale. There’s EcoVardis, fringe corporation. I’ve got to admit, I was quite skeptical about EcoVardis for many years and I’ve changed my tune completely. Well, we’re not just a certified B Corp, but an EcoVardis actually changed from being just a pure

Megan Fraser (06:04.385)
Hmm.

Megan Fraser (06:08.801)
Tell me more.

Humperdinck Jackman (06:18.367)
supply chain management, assessment, cooperation to truly addressing both corporate social responsibility and the environment, then there’s a transformation. So now to achieve an EcoVadis certification, you actually have to demonstrate environmental measures actively or your carbon reporting needs to be comprehensive and environmental measures.

more quantified social measures. So we moved from just being B Corp certified to being Ecovirus certified and we didn’t stop there. We went for Ecovirus gold. actually we ranked globally in the top 3 % of 150,000 corporations. And then we went even further and well, Ecovirus said, hey, why don’t you become a partner? And over this year, we’ve become a

Megan Fraser (07:06.171)
Congratulations!

Humperdinck Jackman (07:17.965)
and approved strategic partner for Ecovirus across UK, Europe, Middle East and Africa. So now we’re the only UK headquartered training partner for Ecovirus in the UK. Now what’s the point? The point is it’s a credible certification like Bicor but for larger organizations and

Megan Fraser (07:34.186)
Wow.

Humperdinck Jackman (07:47.136)
The beauty of it is you really do go through the mill to get this certification, but anybody can do it. It could be a business of, you know, we’ve got clients of five people and clients of many, many thousands of people.

The motivation for EcoVar. Is and you’ll like this is large corporations such as NatWest, HSBC, Acor Hotels. They’re writing to their supply chain and saying, you’re a good supplier. We like you. But if you want to continue to be a supplier, then you must become EcoVar accredited.

so getting becoming divided accredited, it’s back to doing the carbon reporting taking it zero seriously. It’s like NHS Evergreen. You start off with modern slavery and so on. But to move forward, your carbon reporting must actually be approved by the SBTI. That’s to get NHS Evergreen level three. there’s about two.

2.5 million UK businesses suddenly subject to, hey, if you want to supply the NHS, take climate seriously.

Megan Fraser (09:09.665)
Hmm.

Humperdinck Jackman (09:13.28)
Over to you.

Megan Fraser (09:13.429)
But I have some questions I’d love to ask you. One of them is about the changes I have heard are going to happen with B Corp. Is it next year? Are they next year? They’re shifting the way that you’ll have to become eligible? What’s your take on the changes that are happening and how will that impact organizations but also climate? Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing?

Humperdinck Jackman (09:31.191)
Yep.

Humperdinck Jackman (09:40.554)
It’s all good and this is an evolution of ESG reporting. So to set the picture clearly for some listeners, B Corp, EcoVardis, they’re both forms of ESG rating, just like the grandfather of them all, the Global Reporting Institute, the GRI framework is another ESG rating. And there are others greater and lesser importance like CDP. Nothing wrong with it, but you know.

the three prime movers, GRI, EcoVirus and B-Corp. And over the years, as businesses, because they’re all primarily orientated at for-profit enterprises, we come onto that.

As more and more businesses make progress, then all of these frameworks have realized that, well, you can’t have everybody scoring a gold standard or an AAB rating. So the groundswell is to improve the standards to make it more arduous to create more granularity in the ratings so that consumers or procurement

people in procurement and business can say, yeah, okay, that is a top rated company. That’s the one we should be using. And part of it is with B Corp and EcoVirus, but especially B Corp right now, very much in the news, environmental measures are absolutely at the forefront, as well as separating out the various pillars on which you’re assessed. And now saying every business must pass.

each individual pillar rather than being exceptional in two or three. And yeah, we won’t do for more about a carbon reporting. I think it’s a great thing. And it ties in with when you mentioned you’re supporting an NGO and some real startups along with some large organizations. I think it really ties in with what you’re trying to do and to message your delivery.

Megan Fraser (11:53.217)
So let me pick up on that because one thing I think we’ve spoken about briefly in the past is Net Zero versus ESG. And I think often for a small organization, or even for bigger ones, it’s easy to set your sights on Net Zero. Everyone knows what it means. What would you say to a company that had their sights fixed on Net Zero, they didn’t have the pressure of having to jump through hoops for procurement, it was really up to them to choose to set their sights on ESG instead.

Why ESG over net zero and what are some of the motivators you see these companies using if they’re doing it of their own accord rather than having to for a bigger customer.

Humperdinck Jackman (12:34.061)
That’s actually quite a complex question. so net zero is one set of ambitions aligning to a government target.

Net zero is about the emissions in your direct control, scope one and two. How much electricity and gas do you purchase and consume? How much fuel do you consume to operate your vehicles in your machinery, whatever it might be. It’s a very, very narrow definition of carbon reporting.

96 % of your carbon footprint as a business comes from your scope three, the emissions outside of your direct control. Business travel is one example. Upstream and downstream transportation and distribution, there’s another. For many businesses, it doesn’t even factor. But purchased goods and services, everything you buy.

from your insurance policy to your water to a car to a, you name it, to a post-it note, everything you buy and every company you buy from, 96 % of your carbon footprint comes from that. And Net Zero doesn’t discuss that.

So it’s not telling the whole story. And if you really want to manage, be a good corporate citizen, where’s your waste going? What proportion of your waste is going into landfill or being recycled? Now there’s a message.

Humperdinck Jackman (14:21.803)
So, NIT0 versus carbon reporting, it’s scope, it’s transparency. So the government standard, the PPN006 used to be called PPN0621. Well, PPN006 came into play because it was updated by the cabinet office who administer the whole program to conform with the new procurement tax.

Procurement Act 2023 came into effect 24th of February 2025. Now, the issue

is if we really want a business to create a positive impact, then the business needs to look at all that it is doing. Now, I sum it up with people and I lecture on this all the time is,

If people are well treated in the workplace and feel secure in their jobs, are paid a living wage, can pay the rent, can buy food, can can can clothe their children with their school uniforms. There’s less stress in their lives. They’re respected, they feel valued, they’re learning, they’re engaged, they’re supported by their employers. What happens? You have

happier workers who work harder for you for the same amount of money, who represent your business, your organization better and more positively. But then something else happens. They’re less angry. And if people are less angry and less afraid, they have more capacity to care about the environment.

Megan Fraser (16:19.168)
Mmm.

Humperdinck Jackman (16:22.573)
18, 20 year old is nipping through through some village somewhere in the hot hatch Ford Fiesta, whatever it is.

They’ve been to McDonald’s, they’ve had their Red Bull when they can of cider. They don’t just roll down the window and heave it all out. Because actually, well cared for people start to feel pride in themselves and society and therefore they have the capacity to care about the environment.

that’s why the ESG component, environment, social and governance, does all come together to form a whole. Have I actually answered the question though?

Megan Fraser (17:06.304)
Hmm.

You’ve answered some of it. And I really like the framing you have around, it’s almost like the hierarchy of needs. And I think often those of us in the middle classes, I’m pretty squarely middle class. We kind of expect everybody to care about the environment. And yet, of course, if you’re scrabbling to meet your essential needs, it’s never going to be your top priority. So I really like how you frame the role of business in enabling people to feel freer, more engaged, more curious about.

things that aren’t about putting bread on the table. think that’s really important.

Humperdinck Jackman (17:43.982)
Yeah, so another part of it, you see, is why is the typical business, I’m not talking conglomerates here, why is the typical business, say one turning over, the majority of businesses in this country turn over somewhere between 10 and 40 million pounds. There’s no regulatory impact on them, they’re not subject to ESOS, many of those, even when they turn over 40 million pounds, they’re not subject to

the SECR or SECA reporting. So what’s in it for them? And in teaching, one of the principles of teaching is to always address, you’ve got to face the question, what’s in it for me? What’s in it for the student? And if we think of businesses or our clients as students, what’s in it for them? So,

The carbon reporting, usually you have to outsource it to someone because scope one and two, let’s face it, it’s pretty easy. But scope three is not easy. It’s very, very time consuming. And then as the business gets larger and more complex, you’re going to get it wrong. So that’s where consultants like ESG Pro come into play. We deliver it for clients. We hold their hands through it, consultancy led.

Nail it. Help the business focus. Let the business focus on what it does best. Okay, so you’ve got a carbon report. Go on Facebook. Hey, we’ve got a carbon report on Twitter and whatever. Most businesses will say, yeah.

Oh, we were going to be net zero 2035 or 2040. Yeah.

Humperdinck Jackman (19:41.837)
It’s not much of a story.

Megan Fraser (19:43.434)
Hmm.

Humperdinck Jackman (19:45.517)
But if you take it further and start saying, have changed the way we work, we have reduced, we have eliminated waste, we have changed our product and packaging so it is less wasteful, or it’s a circular economy, we buy back the products we have sold. I’ve got a pair of Sennheiser headphones. They were lovely seven years ago. Now they’ve completely rotted on the outside.

The only thing for it now is to throw them in the bin. What a waste.

Megan Fraser (20:20.203)
Mm.

Humperdinck Jackman (20:21.879)
So go a step further and start working on the cultural changes in the business. This is the social. Why should you care as an employee? How are we looking after you? What ideas do you, the employees, have as to how our business could be more efficient?

Make more money. Money is good. Remember the B Corp mantra basically people planet profit. It’s okay to make a profit. Just don’t do it at the cost of people or planet. Now we’re taking the whole net zero.

thought process and we’re wrapping it into people.

And it’s that motivation and it’s the transparency within the organization as to how it’s approaching carbon and people, which gives way to governance. Without good governance, good leadership, it’s going to fail. Deliver your environmental and social parts, and then you have a story to tell.

Megan Fraser (21:26.656)
Mm.

Humperdinck Jackman (21:37.055)
then your marketing agency or marketing team or person, then they can bang on social media and advertising a lot. They have a story to tell.

Megan Fraser (21:49.835)
Hmm.

So that bridges very nicely into the role of communications. Like it’s not just enough to go through this exercise, but actually it’s about giving you a better story to tell people that helps them engage with what you’re about and who they identify as being and why there’s some love there, why there’s some loyalty. Makes a lot of sense.

Humperdinck Jackman (22:11.446)
Yeah, so absolutely. So Megham, when you’re working with your clients, what’s your message to your clients as to the how and the why? Why should these people in transition, these new roles, how and why, how do you help them transition? And how do you explain to them the advantage for them to listen and to act?

Megan Fraser (22:42.113)
That’s a great question. I would say it depends on the kind of transition. So if somebody is at a career crossroads and they’re thinking, where do I go next? Where can I have the most impact? Most of them are highly motivated by making a difference, typically in some parts of the climate world. Many of them have already been in climate, but some are new to climate and they want to get into the green economy. And so then it’s all about helping them to find their highest point of contribution so that they know what’s theirs to do.

Often there’s this paradox of success when somebody becomes successful enough or credible enough, reputation grows, they start to get many opportunities sent their way. And if they say yes to them all, they can become diluted. So that’s a very interesting conundrum for high performers. You have to help them to be focused on what feels like it’s theirs to do. And then that becomes a filter by which to say yes or no to all kinds of things that come across their desk. And also the more clarity they have,

the more impactful they could be. So that’s if they’re at a career crossroads. If somebody comes into a new job, either they make a move internally, they’re promoted, or they are hired into a new position. It’s all about making that first 90 day period as impactful as possible. That typically means increasing their emotional intelligence. So I use a psychometric to help them do that. think EQ is incredibly important in climate leadership. And we know that EQ is very important in leadership generally. There was one really interesting study.

of thousands and thousands of failed hires across the board, so hires at all levels. And only 11 % of failed hires, people who were laid off, people who quit, people who got very bad reviews internally, only 11 % of those were due to lacking technical skills. And 89 % of failures were due to lack of coachability, lack of EQ, lack of the right attitude.

So it’s very, very important. And I think in climate, because leaders are needing to work with so much uncertainty, ambiguity, complexity, being able to hold that is really vital. So we focus on really building up their inner world of leadership, you like, leading self so they can lead others and have impact. And then we create a really practical

Megan Fraser (25:05.589)
game plan for them over the first 90 days so they can hit the ground running, deliver for the organization, deliver for their team. And of course that translates into the planet. And then lastly, if people who are at a new inflection point, if you like, in their organization, so the organization is scaling, typically what they find is that what’s got them here will get them where they want to go next. So they’ve had some skills that have been really successful, but they’re required to lead people in a different way or to step out of day to day and into a more strategic place.

So then it’s about helping them to do that in a way that feels authentic to them and in a way that’s aligned with their core values, but that also performs for the business.

Humperdinck Jackman (25:46.733)
Wow, fascinating stuff. I didn’t realize the depth and complexity of what you do. It’s brilliant. Now, can we switch to digress a little bit? To my mind, one of the challenges for the very people you’re trying to help is their bosses are getting a really mixed message from multiple directions.

Megan Fraser (26:01.686)
Mmm.

Megan Fraser (26:16.993)
Mm.

Humperdinck Jackman (26:18.444)
So we’re not going to go into politics at all, but how do we help these people when on the one hand,

Yeah, there might be a middle of the road conservative. There might be a centrist labor, centrist conservative, centrist liberal.

Humperdinck Jackman (26:43.335)
think, well, know, it, Miliband’s gone too far. We were, you know, read the press and the press is just saying, look, you know, he’s, he’s killing the North Sea. He’s killing this industry, that industry and the rest of it. Net zero is, is everything now being contradicted by Rachel Reeves at the party conference. And then on the other hand, we’ve got Donald Trump saying it’s all a con.

Net zero is a con, that was what he said last week on the news. And he wasn’t pulling his punches. And then the flip side is, know, the UK industry, UK, sorry, the US industry overall and economy is booming. Two states in Alabama make more cars than Europe combined does collectively.

So it’s all very contradictory. And if you even raise your head above the parapet on Facebook, you get screened at by people you’ve never met. It’s outrageous and it gets really vitriolic and quite nasty. So somehow we have to, I think we have to try and explain to everybody in your clients as well.

that hey, you’ve got to be the rational voice as to why this still needs to be part of business strategy.

Megan Fraser (28:22.401)
I think that the challenges my clients face are a little adjacent to that. So we can unpack this a little bit. So about a third of my clients are in the US, a third in Europe and a third in the UK typically. And what I’m finding with my US-based clients, especially right now, is a lot of wearing down of resilience for very understandable reasons. Either they’re working squarely in climate or they’ve just been made redundant.

Humperdinck Jackman (28:34.86)
you

Megan Fraser (28:51.405)
let’s say they’re working for a big corporate sustainability, suddenly their jobs feel like they’re less secure, or they’re having to reevaluate, do I still want to work in the sector? Do I want to have influence in another way? So there’s lots of turmoil. And I think that one of the most important things that we can keep in mind thinking about resilience is there was a brilliant book, it’s called The Resilience Myth, and it talks all about how there’s this story of, you know, this lone hero that

just forges through like a tank of resilience. And actually that research doesn’t buttress that. And true resilience is about interconnectedness and about relationship. And so the more that we can connect these leaders who are in perhaps pockets of climate friendly values and behavior and incentives, connect them together, the less they feel isolated and the more they can shore up courage and whatever it takes to get through this season in the US.

That’s the first thing I would say. The second thing I’d say is that you talked about how a lot of them have somebody above them and need to influence. And then it’s that person who’s often being whipped about by contrary messages. So how do you help these people influence someone above them? And I think so much of climate leadership is about influencing without authority, whether you’re influencing laterally, laterally, laterally, up.

And I actually just ran a workshop with a colleague of mine for New York Climate Week about this exact thing. So how do you influence without authority? And so much of the time, it’s about tapping into whatever the person above you is trying to solve. How are they evaluated, for example? What do they care about? What problems do they have that you can solve for them while also bringing them closer to a more sustainable solution?

Humperdinck Jackman (30:41.29)
We look at this very, very much. Let tell you how we try and help.

Megan Fraser (30:45.952)
Yeah, tell me.

Humperdinck Jackman (30:48.918)
So.

Humperdinck Jackman (30:52.726)
Carbon reporting is a tax.

think some. And you know what? It’s kind of like the data protection fee. pay every business pays its fee. My SME, think it’s 60 pounds a year. It’s a tax on data protection. We don’t see any benefit from it. And carbon is very much viewed the same by so many businesses. It’s back we’re back to what’s in it for me. And

for the buffeted leader to whom your clients are reporting in upwards, they’ve got to adjust their messaging to get that leader on board.

And what we’ve got one very, very large client right now. Been with us a while. Huge corporation. And what their challenges are led by a banker. Throw and throw. Everything is money. And it’s very good at his job. But everything is money. And when you have these people on railway tracks,

Money, money, money. Hey, can we talk about ESG? Got to adjust the messaging. Got to bring this person on board. So.

Humperdinck Jackman (32:29.324)
I’ve already touched on how the majority of your emissions, carbon emissions are in scope three. 96%, that’s a lot of carbon. What is carbon? What are carbon emissions? In a nutshell, they are your money going up in smoke, leaving an exhaust. It’s money which you’re sending to landfill. If you have no waste,

Megan Fraser (32:49.473)
Mm.

Humperdinck Jackman (32:59.636)
If you were generating 100 tons of waste a year and you reduce it to one ton of waste, that is that much product you didn’t purchase or pay to have shipped into you. With me so far? All carbon in your carbon report is waste. It’s been exhausted, it’s been incinerated, it’s been buried.

Humperdinck Jackman (33:27.785)
So

As the majority of your 96 % exists in just one carbon reporting category GHG protocol scope three category one purchased goods and services.

Then we can start off because we know where they’re spending their money proportionately on different types of goods and services. We start with anywhere up, it can be five indirect cost categories, we can progress to 55 or more. We’ve got the carbon data, we know the spend, we know it’s with whom.

Humperdinck Jackman (34:12.766)
So can we help the client procure better to reduce their spend with that client and each supplier rationalize their supply chain, make consolidated, make it more efficient, and thereby drive down their carbon footprint? So case in point, hotel group, reasonably large, but not one of the giants.

group of hotels, we started this process, how much you spend on electricity. It was a lot. Where is it being spent? Well, it’s being spent on generating hot water and heating the swimming pools. So, if we, and that’s just an example, if we introduce some technology which makes your

Megan Fraser (35:01.184)
Hmm.

Humperdinck Jackman (35:12.168)
Any water-based heating system or air conditioning system automatically 20 % more efficient than your electricity bill goes down 20%. If we help negotiate with the right electricity supplier, it goes down even further. Now what’s happened to your carbon footprint? It’s it’s halved. Go even further, reduce.

switch to a green tariff where all of the electricity is carbon neutral. Now you have zero carbon electricity. You’ve wiped out your carbon footprint, but you’ve also halved the cost of the, halved what you spend on electricity.

And if you do that, you’re not just saving money this quarter or this year, but maybe a three or five year window.

So if it comes to mystery, hey boss, you hired me in on this role to do a job.

done the job, I’ve strengthened the business, I’ve added in the case of that one particular hotel client, $625,000 a year saved. Modern line savings, cash in cash in the bank.

Megan Fraser (36:35.648)
Very good.

So with that, the CEO you mentioned then who had the banking background, I take it that was a successful message to translate some of these changes needed to be made.

Humperdinck Jackman (36:47.818)
That one’s ongoing. In other words…

Humperdinck Jackman (36:54.796)
It’s a difficult one to really follow that thread. But I take it.

Humperdinck Jackman (37:07.764)
It’s a competitive world out there and that line does it a very, very, I mean, it’s a cutthroat competitive industry. The top talent is, gets poached right one after the other.

Megan Fraser (37:15.094)
Hmm.

Humperdinck Jackman (37:23.136)
So if we can quantify the standard DSG metric, how many people did you employ last year? How many people left the business last year? How much did it cost to replace each of those people who left? So what’s wrong? Because nobody left a job they absolutely loved. Nobody left a boss they absolutely loved.

Humperdinck Jackman (37:52.78)
and that something else is broken.

So just by focusing on staff turnover and fixing those gaps, you can turn that into a money equation. You’ve got all the recruitment fees, you’ve got the fact loss of productivity that you many people coming into a role, even where they are experienced can take three to six months to really settle in and make an impact. Well, let’s quantify that. What about the IT and HR resource?

Because somebody on a salary of 60,000 pounds a year costs their employer 100,000 pounds a year.

Megan Fraser (38:35.185)
in HR, IT, other resources.

Humperdinck Jackman (38:38.986)
Yep, benefits, class one and class two, national insurance contributions, sick leave, you name it, whatever benefits you have. Many accountants will tell you that if you employ somebody, your actual cost of employing them is double their salary. That’s about the difference. But it’s one thing for sure, the UK, it’s never less than 30%. So.

How many people left the business? Why did they leave? If we fix that.

through the right evaluation of ESNG. It could be what’s happening a lot right now is the company does not, the organization does not reflect the values of the people it has employed. I don’t fit in here. I don’t like the ethos. I know of a…

They’re not a huge, they’re not a City of London law firm, but it’s a significant provincial firm. North of London, well, north of London.

And the law firm is set up as a limited company and the directors want only one thing, money. It’s not about practicing law, not really. It’s how much can we squeeze? How much can we invoice our clients this month?

Humperdinck Jackman (40:18.956)
And I know of people leaving this firm because it doesn’t reflect their values. If you’re a private client solicitor, you want to be looking after, you’re dealing with people, you’re preparing people’s wills. You’re working on the probate for that firm. it doesn’t, if it’s all money, money, money, bill, bill, bill, and by the way, your sales, your billing target went up 20 % this year, but we’re paying you the same, they leave.

Megan Fraser (40:32.607)
Hmm.

Humperdinck Jackman (40:48.94)
How much does it cost to replace that person? So it’s a case of ask, what is the business not doing, which is causing staff turnover? You see, ESG can be, we move way on from net zero, you see net zero is just this tiny piece of the whole picture. Carbon reporting.

Megan Fraser (40:49.142)
Hmm.

Megan Fraser (41:16.481)
Hmm.

Humperdinck Jackman (41:18.538)
widens it, that’s about transparency. We’re going from this almost absurd, precise target of the carbon in which you are in direct control, widen it, be more transparent, tell us about what you’re doing about your waste, bang. That is a good chunk of the E, but it’s not by no means all the bigger as well. What are you doing to…

Megan Fraser (41:42.027)
Hmm.

Humperdinck Jackman (41:46.925)
use fewer harmful products, eliminate hazardous substances, substances from your manufacturing process or the goods you sell to rationalizing your supply chain, realizing savings from that process, to then the moving into the social, it’s the people, retaining people, attracting the best talent.

get them to approach you, then you don’t have to use recruitment consultants and there’s a benefit for mankind.

So that the message to the senior leadership team is, hey, listen to me, we’re going to start with net zero, we’re going to do it right, we’re going to extend our carbon reporting, and then we’re going to progress into ESG, we’re going to quantify this against rigorous standards like B Corp or EcoVarys or the GRI if they’re a not for profit. And we’re going to save, I am going to save this organization.

an awful lot of money and enhance its reputation. So when it comes to, for instance, an RFQ,

Humperdinck Jackman (43:07.82)
I’ve got the answers. I can tick the boxes. We as a business can tick the boxes. The business development manager can tick the boxes. Yes, we’ll take those 20 or 30 percentage points on which our bid is assessed. And we’re going to take all of those 20 or 30 points on sustainability. They’re in the bag. Now let’s move on as to what we can do with our products and services and why you should actually select us. We’ve got the price, we’ve got the capacity or whatever.

Megan Fraser (43:33.728)
Hmm.

Humperdinck Jackman (43:37.473)
So then we’re strengthening the message often with clients who don’t realize actually, hey, we’re doing it ESG, but we’re doing it in a language they understand. Our progress so far with this banker is to say, Mr. Banker, we’ve got one mission. We are going to save you money.

now immediately cash bottom line balance sheet. And not just now, it’s not a one time saving, it’s not buying a thing for 20 % less. It’s year on year on year savings. And we went into one plant, financial services company, quite prestigious, international.

What was it? The professional indemnity insurance premium, 237,000 pounds a year. Within a week, we dropped that to somewhere in the order of 120,000. They didn’t save that 117,000 only on that first year. They saved it in years two and three as well. That’s a message. Oh, and guess what? That makes…

Megan Fraser (44:44.545)
Mm.

Megan Fraser (44:59.114)
Hmm.

Humperdinck Jackman (45:06.57)
The rest of what we’re doing, self-funding.

Megan Fraser (45:10.144)
Yeah.

Humperdinck Jackman (45:12.906)
So your clients in the US can, and what’s happening in the US, they’re not talking about DE &I anymore. That’s bad. That is a bad phrase. It’s dead. It’s just been rebranded. We call it employee engagement. We call it whatever we want, but we just won’t call it DE &I.

Megan Fraser (45:20.917)
No.

Megan Fraser (45:36.297)
Yeah, that’s what I’m seeing too. it’s easy to, I think, especially in the UK media, the way the UK media is representing what’s happening in the US, it looks like so much as screeching to a halt, but actually it’s a lot going on under the surface. People are creatively repositioning the mission, rebranding, like you say, there’s actually a lot happening. That’s perhaps not making its way to the front pages over here. So people are becoming very agile in how they respond to this as well.

Humperdinck Jackman (46:03.2)
Yeah, I think that’s a good thing. think it’s an evolution. ESG has been an evolution.

Megan Fraser (46:08.321)
Yeah.

Humperdinck Jackman (46:10.164)
and carbon reporting, I was very late to the party. mean, if you go back to 2017, nobody was talking about carbon. It wasn’t a thing.

Megan Fraser (46:24.735)
What do you think propelled it to becoming more front and centre?

Humperdinck Jackman (46:33.996)
Well, there is climate change. It is making an impact.

There’s plenty of science on both sides to debate genuinely, whether it’s all human induced or whether it’s natural cycle.

I keep an open mind on all of it. But my father was in Antarctica in 1957, 58, 59 and 60. And it was then in the International Geophysical Year that they first noticed the hole in the ozone layer.

Megan Fraser (47:11.969)
Mmm.

Humperdinck Jackman (47:14.156)
Now that was 1958. In 1996, I was working in a corporation in California where we used vast amounts of acetone. And the reason we used vast amounts was it kept evaporating. We’re talking hundreds of gallons a day. And acetone, CFCs, straight up into the atmosphere, ozone, gone.

And then there are spins in the ozone. We end up with the ozone hole getting bigger and bigger. Contrary argument actually, last couple of years, suddenly the ozone hole is recovering. Two sides to every story. So it’s not necessary. I think the big problem we’ve got is it’s all human.

The UK’s 1 % or whatever it is of total emissions in the world is going to make a hillebeens difference or not. Well, it’s not going to and anyhow, we’ve already crossed the two and a half degree threshold.

Humperdinck Jackman (48:32.106)
Hmm, difficult stuff.

But nonetheless, we’ve got to try because if we don’t, then it’s just going to get worse and worse. And the Chinese, while they are still operating coal-fired stations and building more, they are going green at a frightening rate and leaving everybody else behind.

Humperdinck Jackman (49:01.264)
So we ended up with net zero 2050. do you know that was a slogan dreamed up by somebody in the back of Downing Street, while Theresa May was prime minister.

it just had a nice ring to it. There’s no silence. Fair enough in the future that whoever pushed it forward, made it government policy wasn’t going to be held to account.

but near enough that it causes businesses to have to jump through hoops.

Humperdinck Jackman (49:38.765)
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong. I’m just saying that there’s been a big disconnect. It’s been made very difficult for businesses to conform. Why is it that the SECR regulation demands reporting on scope one and two? And there’s this throw away, well, and you should probably do business travel.

That impacts every business turning over 40 million pounds on 36 million pounds or more 250 employees or 18 million pounds on the balance sheet. Any two of those three criteria. is all you have to do in terms of carbon reporting. A micro SMA, a business of less than 10 people looking to supply the NHS or the local authority or local school.

have to conform with PPN 006, scope one, scope two, five categories of scope three, signed off, published on a separate webpage on their website.

the government, successive governments that’s complaining, anyone in particular.

The right hand doesn’t know what the left hand’s doing and small businesses are struggling which has been an ongoing goal by government in getting people behind the plans.

Humperdinck Jackman (51:14.933)
And then.

Buy diesel cars, good. No, don’t buy diesel cars, we’re going to punish you if you now drive a diesel car we told you to buy. Drive an EV, no we’re going to fine you if you have a charging lead trailing across the pavement.

But you know, this mixed messaging all the time.

So.

We can’t influence government directly, it’d be fun. But what we can do is make life easier on every business to change the life of the carbon recording is not just a hassle. It’s a benefit to your business because it helps you save money that appeals to their profit side. It’s good for your own

Humperdinck Jackman (52:13.65)
is good for your people because they’re breathing cleaner air, as an example. And it’s good for the environment, the planet, because we’re making less waste. Carbon is waste. Don’t waste. Make more money. Be nice. And if the government would just focus on that, we wouldn’t be in this endless barrage of

Humperdinck Jackman (52:40.876)
politicians and everybody else trading insults this person, that person. Is Trump the baddie or is Miliband the baddie or is it actually, there’s some really sane people somewhere in between.

Megan Fraser (52:54.485)
You said a lot in that, I made quite a few notes. I’m going to just, I know we’re almost at the end of our time, but just to speak to some of that, I think, I mean, as for one, I’m convinced by the science. And I think that the real danger we’re looking at now, and I’ve heard this talked about in climate circles is that doom is the new denial. And so if we lift our hands up and say, we can’t do anything, it’s too late, that’s actually more dangerous than

climate deniers, which are now a very small minority. There’s so much that we still can do and every percent of a degree of warming makes a difference. I think that it’s very privileged for us, especially in the West to say, it’s too late when you’ve got a farmer with eight kids in Bangladesh, who for whom, if we give up, it’s going to get even worse for them. And of course it’s hitting us in different ways, but we’re not at the sharp end of climate change just yet. Part of what I keep working on climate is

Humperdinck Jackman (53:26.036)
great.

Megan Fraser (53:53.311)
reason I’m still doing this is I’ve got two kids, two and five, I think there’s no way I’m going to give up, even if it feels like we’re broaching different thresholds left, right and center. If we give up and it really is over. And one of the things that keeps me going also is that systemic change is so often slow and halting and happens in pockets. And then it happens all at once. I look back at history, I think of the suffragettes, think of the abolitionist movement. None of those people even knew what would happen when they began to create that change.

And so think in business too, we may be the pioneers of doing business differently. We may not even see the conclusion of our actions, but it’s still important on a moral ground to do it for the sake of next generation.

Humperdinck Jackman (54:38.219)
Absolutely. I cannot agree with you enough. And it’s like the campaign against plastics.

Megan Fraser (54:46.262)
Mmm.

Humperdinck Jackman (54:48.425)
Look, I get it myself. The ban on drinking straws, it’s nothing to do with the tonnage of plastic used to create and distribute plastic drinking straws. I forget how many hundreds of millions of these things were being consumed annually, but it’s still an insignificant amount of plastic. But what it has done, very effectively, I think, is

It just nudges every single person who was going to a McDonald’s or whatever. It’s paper because plastic is harmful. Plastic is carbon. Plastic is causing, contributing to climate change and it’s also poisoning the fish and all.

Megan Fraser (55:38.805)
Hmm.

Humperdinck Jackman (55:41.919)
We totally agree. We can’t stop. Now what we have to do from an ESG pro point of view, what we can do is help business people everywhere.

see that there is a logical business argument for tackling these subjects they don’t really know, perhaps know very well. And you’re training people to advise these businesses, to go into a business and start their jobs on a successful footing. Sounds like a win-win.

Megan Fraser (56:09.075)
Hmm.

Megan Fraser (56:22.676)
I think so.

Humperdinck Jackman (56:25.407)
Megan, how should anybody who’s listened here get in touch with FutureLED? Wrap it up with a little summary of FutureLED, your website and all the rest.

Megan Fraser (56:42.689)
The best way to get in touch is by looking up my company is Futureled, which is futureled.earth. So futureled.earth. that’s where you can find out all about me, how I work, how to get in touch, and how I might be able to help you and your leaders.

Humperdinck Jackman (56:59.531)
It’s been a real pleasure speaking to you. We’ve spoken for about 57 minutes. and it’s been wonderful for me, I have really enjoyed this chat.

Megan Fraser (57:09.203)
Well, likewise, thanks for having me on the podcast.

Humperdinck Jackman (57:12.139)
For everybody who’s listened, thank you very much. I’m Humperdinck Jackman. Thank you very much to Megan Fraser of FutureLED. esgpro.co.uk. We are free with our advice. Give us a call. Likewise, pick up the phone, send an email to Megan. Thank you, everybody.

Megan Fraser (57:34.721)
Bye everyone.